ing electronics, but the nearest actually working tool for this purpose is Faust, developed at the Grame center. Campion: Could you encapsulate, what is the nature of your creative work? What are you doing? How would you describe it? Barrière: My work is divided into two streams. One stream—which I call visual concerts, for lack of a better name—consists of performance contexts that involve performers, singers, instrumentalists, electronics, and image processing. The second stream consists of installations, mostly interactive installations. Both cases involve a similar kind of technology, which is a mixture of prepared electronics, either for sound or image, and live electronics. I use cameras and microphones to process live sources, which are mixed with and treated by the prepared sources. Since I left IRCAM about twenty years ago, most of my work is about the interaction between music and image. Performance and installations, investigating the potential relations between these two dimensions, dynamic relationships that come from the musical score and are developed in the electronics and then image. Back-and-forth interactions that can be extremely different from one context to another. A recent work, Distant Mirrors, is a performance involving two flutists in different locations, who play together through the Internet, using a dynamic score. The whole score is not fixed at the start. Fragments are prepared that I trigger at times, and they are shown on a screen on which performers can also see each other, mixed with abstract forms and colors. They sight-read what appears on the score and decipher what is otherwise happening in the image, since forms and colors carry a musical meaning representing characters, modes of playing, timbres, etc. So image has a double function. The score is sometimes generated by the computer according to a given context, which is analyzed. Sometimes the performers are asked to improvise on a sketch. The problematics of dynamic scores and “floating structure” are something I am interested in and want to continue developing in the future. It comes from my experience about interactive installations. I am trying to bring the interactive installations into a performance situation. Campion: Kaija, I connect your music to earlier music traditions from the Baroque to the present, yet it is not anachronistic. You are still a searcher, you still use these tools, you still work to seek newness and your pieces often have novelty in the sense that something totally unexpected might occur in the course of the work that would not be a hallmark of someone who relies only on the past. How do you manage that? Saariaho: Our past is a major source of inspiration, and as long as there is music with pitches and rhythms, we are dealing with the same musical parameters and the same musical questions concerning their organization that our ancestors were dealing with. And this is infinitely interesting. Personally, I do not want to do what has been done before or to repeat myself. For me, composition is a way of life and a personal path to try to tell what is going on in the world today. That is why it is not only an intellectual attitude, but it also proceeds from an intuitive need to use tools that are part of our society today. My studies and my intuition brought me to analyze sounds and build them with

中文翻译：

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双重反思：与 Kaija Saariaho 和 Jean-Baptiste Barrière 关于音乐、艺术和技术的对话

电子，但最近的实际工作工具是 Faust，在 Grame 中心开发。坎皮恩：您能否概括一下，您创作的本质是什么？你在干嘛？你会如何描述它？Barrière：我的工作分为两个部分。一个流——我称之为视觉音乐会，因为没有更好的名字——由涉及表演者、歌手、乐器演奏者、电子设备和图像处理的表演环境组成。第二个流由装置组成，主要是交互式装置。这两个案例都涉及一种类似的技术，它是准备好的电子设备（声音或图像）和现场电子设备的混合体。我使用摄像机和麦克风来处理实时信号源，这些信号源与准备好的信号源混合并由它们处理。自从我大约二十年前离开 IRCAM 以来，我的大部分工作都是关于音乐和图像之间的互动。表演和装置，调查这两个维度之间的潜在关系，来自乐谱并在电子设备和图像中发展的动态关系。从一个上下文到另一个上下文可能截然不同的来回交互。最近的一部作品《遥远的镜子》是一场表演，涉及两个不同地点的长笛手，他们通过互联网一起演奏，使用动态乐谱。一开始总比分不固定。片段是准备好的，我有时会触发，它们显示在屏幕上，表演者也可以在屏幕上看到彼此，混合着抽象的形式和颜色。他们视奏出现在乐谱上的内容并破译图像中发生的其他事情，由于形式和颜色具有代表人物、演奏方式、音色等的音乐意义。因此图像具有双重功能。分数有时是由计算机根据给定的上下文生成的，并对其进行分析。有时表演者会被要求即兴创作草图。动态分数和“浮动结构”的问题是我感兴趣的，并希望在未来继续发展。它来自我关于交互式装置的经验。我试图将交互式装置带入表演情境。Campion：Kaija，我将您的音乐与从巴洛克到现在的早期音乐传统联系起来，但它并没有过时。你仍然是一个搜索者，你仍然在使用这些工具，你仍然在努力寻找新事物，而且你的作品通常具有新颖性，因为在工作过程中可能会发生一些完全出乎意料的事情，而这不是只依赖过去的人的标志。你是怎么做到的？Saariaho：我们的过去是灵感的主要来源，只要有音高和节奏的音乐，我们就在处理与我们的祖先正在处理的相同的音乐参数和相同的音乐问题。这非常有趣。就我个人而言，我不想做以前做过的事情，也不想重复自己。对我来说，构图是一种生活方式，也是一种尝试讲述当今世界正在发生的事情的个人道路。这就是为什么它不仅是一种理智的态度，但它也源于对使用工具的直觉需求，这些工具是当今社会的一部分。我的研究和直觉使我能够分析声音并用它来构建它们