This interview was held on 15 April 2019 at SAVVY Contemporary in Berlin – an art space, a platform for discourse and a meeting place for good conversations, food and drink founded in 2009 by Dr Bonaventure Soh Bejeng Ndikung as a place of communal hospitality.¹1 See SAVVY Contemporary website https://bit.ly/3qkG1MG The organization has since moved to new premises, a former casino, also in the district of Wedding. When I entered the historical premises of this former crematorium in the Berlin district of Wedding, I could feel that something was strange in the way Bonaventure was talking to me. The art space, otherwise so lively, full of vibrant ideas and life, was filled with an outlandish heaviness, an outrageous sadness. It was the morning Okwui Enwezor²2 Okwui Enwezor was a Nigerian curator, art critic, writer, poet and educator specializing in art history. He lived in New York City and Munich. In 2014, he was ranked twenty-four in the ArtReview list of the 100 most powerful people in the art world. From 1998 to 2002 he was artistic director of documenta 11 in Kassel. From October 2011 to June 2018 he was director of the Haus der Kunst in Munich. The highlight of Enwezor’s curatorial work is his function as artistic director of the 56th Venice Biennale in 2015., an internationally renowned curator and friend, had passed away. Bonaventure had got the message that he had died that very morning, shortly before our interview. I did not ask if something was wrong. I heard the news some hours later. In retrospect, I understand that Bonaventure, while addressing a very personal relationship in this interview, must have been deeply affected by these circumstances. In his moment of loss, that must have been made much more difficult by my unknowing questioning.

采访于2019年4月15日在柏林SAVVY当代艺术博物馆举行-一个艺术空间，一个演讲平台和一个良好对话，美食和饮料的聚会场所，由Bonaventure Soh Bejeng Ndikung博士于2009年创立，是一个公共待客之所。^1个1参见SAVVY Contemporary网站https://bit.ly/3qkG1MG该组织此后搬到了新的场所，即以前的赌场，也位于婚宴区。当我进入柏林婚礼区的前火葬场的历史建筑时，我感到Bonaventure与我交谈的方式有些奇怪。艺术空间原本如此活跃，充满了生机勃勃的思想和生活，却充满了异想天开的沉重，令人发指的悲伤。这是Okwui Enwezor ²早上2 Okwui Enwezor是尼日利亚的策展人，艺术评论家，作家，诗人和专门从事艺术史的教育家。他住在纽约市和慕尼黑。2014年，他在ArtReview的艺术世界100强榜单中排名第24。从1998年到2002年，他担任卡塞尔文献展11的艺术总监。从2011年10月到2018年6月，他担任慕尼黑艺术之家的总监。Enwezor策展工作的重头戏是他在2015年担任第56届威尼斯双年展的艺术总监。，享誉国际的策展人和朋友，已经去世了。Bonaventure收到一条消息，说他那天早上就去世了，就在我们接受采访前不久。我没有问是否有什么问题。几个小时后，我听到了这个消息。回想起来，我了解到Bonaventure在本次采访中谈到了非常私人的关系，但一定会受到这些情况的深远影响。在他茫然的时刻，我不知所措的疑问一定使这一点变得更加困难。